I took a cruise once and can think of only a few things worse than being quarantined in a cabin without fresh air with or without other people, for several weeks. The stress/anxiety, lack of exercise, perhaps running out of medications, and who knows the fear mongering they were being told.
Something was killing people in certain places but not my hospital (midwest during year 2020). Our hospital was almost empty. Of-course germs don't stop at state lines so I consider flu shots given the winter of 2019/2020 (spiked), food contamination, or deliberate poisoning. I spoke to a nurse who worked in a hospital NJ and she confirmed the elderly with "Covid" were being given overdoses of morphine to clear the beds.
In the early days I spoke to a friend on the phone and it was the DP data that allowed me to do a quick back of the envelope calculation to calm her down and show her it was not as bad as it seemed.
There are many issues with this analysis. The most important is that you dd not familiarize yourself with the meaning of the PCR detection of RNA viruses in the nasopharyngeal and oropharyngeal swabs. CDC EPIC studies https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26172429/ clearly state that detection of viruses in these swabs is meaningless. I remember from my discussions at the CDC at the early stages of the EPIC project that everybody understood that the nasal passages are the best air filter on the planet, allowing us to navigate the ocean of billion viruses that we live in. Finding one virus, or rather it's part in the nasal passage is, as I pointed above, meaningless.
The whole story of the pandemic was how to kill people with an Influenza-Like Illness and blame it on a benign virus. This was needed to mandate a useless and dangerous vaccine. Please contact me on Twitter if you need more info.
If this was indeed about health, the Diamond Princess experience should have ended this before it began. This virus was never deadly enough enough to shut down the world and lock up people. Apart from the clear scientific evidence showing that the decisions taken by those in authority were wrong scientifically, it was morally wrong.
Ioannidis looked at the Diamond Princess as a case study very early on, noting it probably indicated that everyone was overreacting. Too few paid attention.
PANDA was one of the very first groups to supply solid data supporting my strong suspicion that the narrative was a lie. I remember watching PANDA's first big presentation feeling so relieved to discover that there were highly capable people on the other side of the globe pushing back. It inspired me, gave me a certain amount of strength to know that dissidents like me in the US were not alone. This detailed report comparing the Diamond Princess to NYC is exactly the sort of information needed to dispel the lies and deprogram the masses. I can not thank you enough
Same here, Roy. Knew before the first lockdowns happened that what was actually happening was the announcement of a crime. "Officials," elected and otherwise, were telling us with their faces hanging out that they were going to commit a crime...The "masses," as you put it, showed themselves either completely incapable of recognizing this or in support of that which would destroy life and liberty for that "temporary safety."
Thus, what we have is a 𝒄𝒉𝒂𝒓𝒂𝒄𝒕𝒆𝒓 problem as much as, if not more, than a mental problem.
Yes I feel very disappointed in my neighbors. But they have been hypnotized and the conditioning for that started long before covid. They were frightened out of their ability to think straight. Now that the fog is wearing thin they are not interested in self reflection or any debrief on the big lie they bought into and acted on. I alternate between being exasperated and feeling empathy for them. But we need to keep putting the pieces together and keep confirming reality and confronting people with it. Otherwise the tyrants will just rinse and repeat.
There are countless cases of "norovirus" outbreaks on cruise ships. In fact, it's kind of a running joke for those who have been on a cruise. My thought is this: 14 people dying within 6 months of being on a cruise ship still seems high. I realize the argument is that these people were old, unhealthy and/or frail. But if cruise ships had a 2.5% CFR within six months (for all acquired diseases onboard), my hunch is that old people would probably stop taking them. So I guess my question is this: what is the cruise fatality rate generally and was the DP cruise fatality rate considerably higher than both the median and the high average? If the DP was truly an outlier here, then you can see how this would/could trigger an uproar.
The saying goes, cruises are for “the newly-wed, the overfed, and the nearly-dead.”
The first passenger to test positive (the 80-YO HK man) didn’t die, FYI
I agree 14 is on the higher end. But we also have no way of confirming that number, or knowing the exact circumstances of those deaths. We do know some were put in the hospital and placed on ventilators though.
Given what respective countries from which the passengers came were doing in the spring months (“lockdowns), we would expect an impact on mortality risk.
P.S. What’s the CFR of noro for the elderly? I get that the illness is violent, but is it deadly?
the likelihood of venting matters. A good catch. Still bothered by the number 14. although if we knew that 8 of them were vented and 2 who died after 5 months were actually heart attacks, well then I might be less interested.
“64 people (approximate; as of February 18) from the Diamond Princess cruise ship were admitted to emergency medical facilities in Yokohama City.
Among these admitted passengers, some patients with a stable respiratory condition at the time of transport gradually deteriorated, requiring ventilator support and extracorporeal membrane oxygenation (ECMO). (For further detail, please refer to reports from The Japanese Society of Intensive Care Medicine and five other associations who have jointly established Japan COVID-19 Countermeasure ECMOnet Project).”
Yes norovirus is a regular cruiser. Points out how these ships can be true virus mills. Yet zero non-elderly folk had any serious outcomes despite being packed like sardines mostly below waterline and sharing unfiltered ventilation. Much tougher to discern what the elderly died of. Massive fear played a role here - even the crew were sharing rumors that the ship was going to be sunk with them aboard to save the world. Yet with all that, NYC was far worse.
This is good work you have done. Good job on this. It's welll put together and comprehensive, and still very accessible to the average non-scientist.
That's saying something, because I performed a similar analysis that is in much disagreement with yours, though we both agree COVID wasn't "that" dangerous, and was certainly not dangerous enough to kill 10's of thousands inside of New York City:
I took a cruise once and can think of only a few things worse than being quarantined in a cabin without fresh air with or without other people, for several weeks. The stress/anxiety, lack of exercise, perhaps running out of medications, and who knows the fear mongering they were being told.
Something was killing people in certain places but not my hospital (midwest during year 2020). Our hospital was almost empty. Of-course germs don't stop at state lines so I consider flu shots given the winter of 2019/2020 (spiked), food contamination, or deliberate poisoning. I spoke to a nurse who worked in a hospital NJ and she confirmed the elderly with "Covid" were being given overdoses of morphine to clear the beds.
Very well put together article. Thank you so much.
Midazolam, morphine, remdesivir then ventilators. No-one could survive that. A positive "test" was a death sentence.
In the early days I spoke to a friend on the phone and it was the DP data that allowed me to do a quick back of the envelope calculation to calm her down and show her it was not as bad as it seemed.
Lets not forget the Ruby Princess in Australia where the data were similar.March 2020.
The media here are too stupid t actually look at the mortality figures.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/oct/12/covid-outbreak-on-ruby-princess-not-an-accident-and-cruise-should-never-have-sailed-court-told
There are many issues with this analysis. The most important is that you dd not familiarize yourself with the meaning of the PCR detection of RNA viruses in the nasopharyngeal and oropharyngeal swabs. CDC EPIC studies https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26172429/ clearly state that detection of viruses in these swabs is meaningless. I remember from my discussions at the CDC at the early stages of the EPIC project that everybody understood that the nasal passages are the best air filter on the planet, allowing us to navigate the ocean of billion viruses that we live in. Finding one virus, or rather it's part in the nasal passage is, as I pointed above, meaningless.
The whole story of the pandemic was how to kill people with an Influenza-Like Illness and blame it on a benign virus. This was needed to mandate a useless and dangerous vaccine. Please contact me on Twitter if you need more info.
If this was indeed about health, the Diamond Princess experience should have ended this before it began. This virus was never deadly enough enough to shut down the world and lock up people. Apart from the clear scientific evidence showing that the decisions taken by those in authority were wrong scientifically, it was morally wrong.
Ioannidis looked at the Diamond Princess as a case study very early on, noting it probably indicated that everyone was overreacting. Too few paid attention.
What a revealing analysis, thank you.
This article has been permanently archived at http://archive.today/Q4RfE.
Or,
http://archive.today/2023.05.17-041436/https://pandauncut.substack.com/p/what-the-diamond-princess-tells-us
PANDA was one of the very first groups to supply solid data supporting my strong suspicion that the narrative was a lie. I remember watching PANDA's first big presentation feeling so relieved to discover that there were highly capable people on the other side of the globe pushing back. It inspired me, gave me a certain amount of strength to know that dissidents like me in the US were not alone. This detailed report comparing the Diamond Princess to NYC is exactly the sort of information needed to dispel the lies and deprogram the masses. I can not thank you enough
Same here, Roy. Knew before the first lockdowns happened that what was actually happening was the announcement of a crime. "Officials," elected and otherwise, were telling us with their faces hanging out that they were going to commit a crime...The "masses," as you put it, showed themselves either completely incapable of recognizing this or in support of that which would destroy life and liberty for that "temporary safety."
Thus, what we have is a 𝒄𝒉𝒂𝒓𝒂𝒄𝒕𝒆𝒓 problem as much as, if not more, than a mental problem.
Yes I feel very disappointed in my neighbors. But they have been hypnotized and the conditioning for that started long before covid. They were frightened out of their ability to think straight. Now that the fog is wearing thin they are not interested in self reflection or any debrief on the big lie they bought into and acted on. I alternate between being exasperated and feeling empathy for them. But we need to keep putting the pieces together and keep confirming reality and confronting people with it. Otherwise the tyrants will just rinse and repeat.
There are countless cases of "norovirus" outbreaks on cruise ships. In fact, it's kind of a running joke for those who have been on a cruise. My thought is this: 14 people dying within 6 months of being on a cruise ship still seems high. I realize the argument is that these people were old, unhealthy and/or frail. But if cruise ships had a 2.5% CFR within six months (for all acquired diseases onboard), my hunch is that old people would probably stop taking them. So I guess my question is this: what is the cruise fatality rate generally and was the DP cruise fatality rate considerably higher than both the median and the high average? If the DP was truly an outlier here, then you can see how this would/could trigger an uproar.
Cruise ships don’t hold that kind of CFR. It’s about the passengers’ likelihood of dying from any cause within the next 2 months.
One attempt to estimate:
https://twitter.com/professorakston/status/1620460625586700288?s=46
The saying goes, cruises are for “the newly-wed, the overfed, and the nearly-dead.”
The first passenger to test positive (the 80-YO HK man) didn’t die, FYI
I agree 14 is on the higher end. But we also have no way of confirming that number, or knowing the exact circumstances of those deaths. We do know some were put in the hospital and placed on ventilators though.
Given what respective countries from which the passengers came were doing in the spring months (“lockdowns), we would expect an impact on mortality risk.
P.S. What’s the CFR of noro for the elderly? I get that the illness is violent, but is it deadly?
Thanks for sharing that saying about cruises. First time seeing that, but will definitely "steal" it for future use. :)
the likelihood of venting matters. A good catch. Still bothered by the number 14. although if we knew that 8 of them were vented and 2 who died after 5 months were actually heart attacks, well then I might be less interested.
For starters:
“64 people (approximate; as of February 18) from the Diamond Princess cruise ship were admitted to emergency medical facilities in Yokohama City.
Among these admitted passengers, some patients with a stable respiratory condition at the time of transport gradually deteriorated, requiring ventilator support and extracorporeal membrane oxygenation (ECMO). (For further detail, please refer to reports from The Japanese Society of Intensive Care Medicine and five other associations who have jointly established Japan COVID-19 Countermeasure ECMOnet Project).”
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ams2.506
Yes norovirus is a regular cruiser. Points out how these ships can be true virus mills. Yet zero non-elderly folk had any serious outcomes despite being packed like sardines mostly below waterline and sharing unfiltered ventilation. Much tougher to discern what the elderly died of. Massive fear played a role here - even the crew were sharing rumors that the ship was going to be sunk with them aboard to save the world. Yet with all that, NYC was far worse.
Excellent work, Todd. I remain shocked that Diamond Princess was so successfully ignored by the narrative-promoters.
This is good work you have done. Good job on this. It's welll put together and comprehensive, and still very accessible to the average non-scientist.
That's saying something, because I performed a similar analysis that is in much disagreement with yours, though we both agree COVID wasn't "that" dangerous, and was certainly not dangerous enough to kill 10's of thousands inside of New York City:
https://deepd1ve.substack.com/p/that-first-natural-experiment-of
Nice analysis and discussion, solid yet modest conclusions., Sets the stage for what should be a more radical NYC denouement. Thank you.
And yet, they will continue to ignore the evidence and denigrate those that highlight it. And, the masses won't bat an eyelid.
Excellent article. Thank you very much!